Coolant system issue
Hello there,
I am novice to this Forum. I was reading all over the topics but couldn't find a relevant to my issue.
My hope is that some expert can answer my question:
I have a 2010 F07 535i GT.
My engine code is N55B30A
The current millage is 140 000 km.
The issue is that the coolant fluid is vanishing from the system but there is no sign of leaking.
I need to top up from min to max at least every 100 km in city. If going to highway then after 25 km the BC notice me to stop and top up.
This whole issues started with change of the cooler radiator which had a leak.
Then I had to change 6 months later the water pump at 130 000 km which went down.
Since these changes I still have this issue which is almost a year know.
I was several times in different workshops (including official BMW) where the system was checked for high pressure but we could not find any sign of leaking in the system.
The oil is dark brown as usual. The engine works fine I do not feel any difference.
Where do I need to look, how can I find the leak? Is there any known issue among the F07 users with similar issue?
Please, help!
Is there any method to find out if there is more O2 in the exhaust which indicates that the coolant is disappearing there?
Regards
Pix
Beste Antwort im Thema
Hi everybody,
After one year struggle I've solved the issue. I believe it may be helpful to others to learn the outcome. So here it is.
The engine head got loose at the 5th cylinder. Three screws lost their strength. Due to this the gas was escaping into the coolant system. After a while the overpressure opened the emergency valve of the coolant system where it escaped together with the coolant.
The funny thing that the escape didn't produced viewable residuals as it drained down over the small drain whole under the coolant cap. Therefore I never could see any signs of it.
So I had to dissasamble the whole engine block, fix it and put it back.
During the dissasamble the problematic screws basically come out with the threads. Due to this all 10 screw threads had to be re-done in an alluminium block. Not an easy thing.
I have a suspicion that this engine was already repaired before improperly and the srews were glued which couldn't hold when the wather pump went down and the temperature was a bit higher then normal.
The final proof that the engine gas was escaping to the coolant was showed with a very simple but very useful tool. It had a co2 reagent. The color of the reagent became blue if the hot vapour succed into this device contained co2. I recomend this tool to everybody who have similar issue. Actually it was developed for older (30 and more years cars) but I could apply it successfully and got the assurance that indeed I had an engine issue and not a coolant system one.
Pix
39 Antworten
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@pix2 schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 21:04:16 Uhr:
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@maxmosley schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 20:10:47 Uhr:
...here You find Your car's equipment listed after entering the VINhttps://www.etkbmw.com/bmw/DE/vin/decoder/online
Not sure where to look:
535i N55 (From 01.09.2009)
F07 Gran Turismo Europe
Manufacture date: 01.2010 Steering: L Gearbox: AVIN decoderParts kits for F07
Model Gearbox Engine Final drive Antifreeze(with AC) Antifreeze Brakes
535i (SN21) 8.50l (GA8HP-45Z Auto) 6.50l (N55) 0.80l 9.30l 0.00l 1.00l
* Final drive (rear axel), Automatic transmission: lifetime oil filing
..type in VIN of Your car > enter.
All equipment codes are listed on top just below the green mark "VIN Decoder" If "S823A" is among them, You should look for the second radiator, because the hot climate plumbing is installed.
Besides that, I would suggest a pressure (leak) test with the engine running.
Maybe the leak is due to a damaged shaft seal.
Anyway, dried up anti-freeze should be visible. In case the head gasket is gone - as indicated by the other guy - it won't be necessarily detected by the performed leak tests.
In case the failure of the first radiator went unnoticed, an impaired head gasket might be a possible follow up due to loss of coolant at that time.
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@maxmosley schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 22:14:54 Uhr:
Zitat:
@pix2 schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 21:04:16 Uhr:
Not sure where to look:
535i N55 (From 01.09.2009)
F07 Gran Turismo Europe
Manufacture date: 01.2010 Steering: L Gearbox: AVIN decoderParts kits for F07
Model Gearbox Engine Final drive Antifreeze(with AC) Antifreeze Brakes
535i (SN21) 8.50l (GA8HP-45Z Auto) 6.50l (N55) 0.80l 9.30l 0.00l 1.00l
* Final drive (rear axel), Automatic transmission: lifetime oil filing..type in VIN of Your car > enter.
All equipment codes are listed on top just below the green mark "VIN Decoder" If "S823A" is among them, You should look for the second radiator, because the hot climate plumbing is installed.
Besides that, I would suggest a pressure (leak) test with the engine running.
Maybe the leak is due to a damaged shaft seal.
Anyway, dried up anti-freeze should be visible. In case the head gasket is gone - as indicated by the other guy - it won't be necessarily detected by the performed leak tests.
In case the failure of the first radiator went unnoticed, an impaired head gasket might be a possible follow up due to loss of coolant at that time.
Well, I've already pasted what the website indicated. Below the VIN Decoder I see a bunch of links like this:
11110392552 Set of aluminum screws crankcase
11110411131 Set of aluminum screws engine
11110426591 set of aluminum screws crankcase compl.
11112159389 Sealing kit crankcase asbestos-free
11118508077 Sealing kit crankcase asbestos-free
11122165470 Set of screws f. Cylinder head TORX
11122327854 Gasket set cylinder head asbestos free
11127583203 Gasket set cylinder head asbestos free
11127587804 profile seal
11127823943 Gasket set cylinder head cover
11128508558 Gasket set cylinder head asbestos free
11128511814 Gasket set cylinder head cover
11128513128 Set of screws f. Cylinder head M12X1,5X200
11128513130 Set of screws f. Cylinder head M12X1,5X200
11128515732 Gasket set cylinder head cover
11137809836 Seal metal
11247624615 Set of connecting rods
11247807345 Set of connecting rods
11248508023 Set of connecting rod
11257574822 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257574823 Repair Kit Piston Rings (+0,25)
11257610297 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257649927 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257649928 Repair Kit Piston Rings (+0,25)
11257811793 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257811795 Repair Kit Piston Rings (+0,25)
11257812627 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257812629 Repair Kit Piston Rings (+0,25)
11257812636 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11257812638 Repair Kit Piston Rings (+0,25)
11257844774 Repair Kit Piston Rings (0)
11340034068 Repair Kit Valve Stem Sealing
11340035853 Repair Kit Valve Stem Sealing
11340039494 Repair kit valve stem seal production discontinued since 02.02.2018
11347807347 Repair Kit Valve Stem Sealing
11347812926 Repair Kit Valve Stem Sealing
11412165397 Set of aluminum screws, oil pump
11427566327 Set of oil filter inserts Manufactured since 30.01.2017
11428511982 Seal kit manufacture discontinued since 09.05.2014
11512159019 Set of aluminum screws water pump
EGR is of course valid not only for Diesel:
https://www.newtis.info/.../XRklATX
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@pix2 schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 18:39:20 Uhr:
Hi Robin,My car is a petrol version. As far as I know the EGR is valid only for the Diesel cars.
Any other idea?Pix
...Your post shows some spare parts listed.
When I do it, the equipment codes show up and further down the codes are interpreted (see screenshot).
Anyway, it was just to find out whether a supplementary radiator is installed in Your car.
You can check it easily - take a look through the right front grille below the headlight - You should detect the radiator mesh if there is one.
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@RobinDerRetter schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 22:04:49 Uhr:
After engine reaches temperature
I've tried this morning your suggestion on both pipes but couldn't find any wet or moisture part yet. Hold on for 60 sec each a folded in two napkin. The napkin was 3 layer one thus the exhaust was going over 6 layers. Tell me if I need to do this differently.
Will try with throttle later but for that I need some assistance.
Thx for any advice!
Pix
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@maxmosley schrieb am 24. Oktober 2018 um 08:03:30 Uhr:
...Your post shows some spare parts listed.
When I do it, the equipment codes show up and further down the codes are interpreted (see screenshot).
Anyway, it was just to find out whether a supplementary radiator is installed in Your car.
You can check it easily - take a look through the right front grille below the headlight - You should detect the radiator mesh if there is one.
The list is not coming up in my case on the website. Will check the radiator as you described. The car was produced for the German market so I do not expect to have this but never know.
...since your problem started after the main radiator was changed, it is obvious to check the plumbing first. that's why I mentioned the supplementary radiator.
If Your car has it but no traces of anti-freeze are found, an internal leakage should be considered, presuming the earlier checks have been performed thoroughly.
There is a method for checking on internal leaks by testing the coolant for carbon-dioxide.
Lookng further, to locate a crack disconnect a sparkplug - one at a time - and run the engine.
A cracked gasket or cylinder head will produce bubbles popping up from the coolant reservoir (remove the lid).
Once You come across the faulty cylinder and remove its plug connector the bubbling will seize, because there is no combustion.
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@pix2 schrieb am 24. Oktober 2018 um 08:39:29 Uhr:
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@RobinDerRetter schrieb am 23. Oktober 2018 um 22:04:49 Uhr:
After engine reaches temperatureI've tried this morning your suggestion on both pipes but couldn't find any wet or moisture part yet. Hold on for 60 sec each a folded in two napkin. The napkin was 3 layer one thus the exhaust was going over 6 layers. Tell me if I need to do this differently.
Will try with throttle later but for that I need some assistance.
Thx for any advice!Pix
Finally I did the test with 3000 rpm engine. No sign of water. However I see some moist on the bumper above the pipes but I assume this is a seconadary effect.
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@maxmosley schrieb am 24. Oktober 2018 um 09:25:11 Uhr:
...since your problem started after the main radiator was changed, it is obvious to check the plumbing first. that's why I mentioned the supplementary radiator.
If Your car has it but no traces of anti-freeze are found, an internal leakage should be considered, presuming the earlier checks have been performed thoroughly.
There is a method for checking on internal leaks by testing the coolant for carbon-dioxide.
Lookng further, to locate a crack disconnect a sparkplug - one at a time - and run the engine.
A cracked gasket or cylinder head will produce bubbles popping up from the coolant reservoir (remove the lid).
Once You come across the faulty cylinder and remove its plug connector the bubbling will seize, because there is no combustion.
So you say I need to see CO2 coming out in the coolant when it returns to the reservoir, am I right?
That was also checked in one workshop but we couldn't see any bubbles so far.
Is it possible that the coolant goes into the cylinder only?
...the CO2-Test is a procedure to check on any CO2 dissolved in the coolant.
A damaged head gasket or crack in the head allows combustion gases to enter the coolant.
Test pressure at the shop is far less than the one generated by combustion, so small leaks will go unnoticed even during a prolonged test.
The "bubble test" does the same, because any gases passing through a leak in the cylinder head area under combustion will expand when entering the surrounding coolant and eventually show up at the reservoir.
The CO2-test will not identify the location of the leak - just that there is one. The "bubble test" may point at the faulty cylinder/cylinder head area by shutting down one cylinder at a time as mentioned above.
...did any of the shop check the crankcase plugs for corrosion?
I think they are installed on every crankcase no matter what brand of car.
It's a safety measure in case the coolant freezes and expands - they pop out and prevent crankcase cracking.
When they start corroding small leaks occur.
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@maxmosley schrieb am 25. Oktober 2018 um 14:57:38 Uhr:
...did any of the shop check the crankcase plugs for corrosion?
I think they are installed on every crankcase no matter what brand of car.
It's a safety measure in case the coolant freezes and expands - they pop out and prevent crankcase cracking.
When they start corroding small leaks occur.
Not az all.
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@maxmosley schrieb am 25. Oktober 2018 um 14:18:14 Uhr:
...the CO2-Test is a procedure to check on any CO2 dissolved in the coolant.
A damaged head gasket or crack in the head allows combustion gases to enter the coolant.
Test pressure at the shop is far less than the one generated by combustion, so small leaks will go unnoticed even during a prolonged test.
The "bubble test" does the same, because any gases passing through a leak in the cylinder head area under combustion will expand when entering the surrounding coolant and eventually show up at the reservoir.
The CO2-test will not identify the location of the leak - just that there is one. The "bubble test" may point at the faulty cylinder/cylinder head area by shutting down one cylinder at a time as mentioned above.
If the pressure is much higher in the cylinder (which I fully agree) then how the coolant can vanish? The CO2 goes into the coolant is ok but where the coolant goes? Or depending of the piston's direction in one way the CO2 goes into the coolant and the opposite way the coolant goes into the cylinder?
Zitat:
@maxmosley schrieb am 24. Oktober 2018 um 09:25:11 Uhr:
...since your problem started after the main radiator was changed, it is obvious to check the plumbing first. that's why I mentioned the supplementary radiator.
If Your car has it but no traces of anti-freeze are found, an internal leakage should be considered, presuming the earlier checks have been performed thoroughly.
There is a method for checking on internal leaks by testing the coolant for carbon-dioxide.
Lookng further, to locate a crack disconnect a sparkplug - one at a time - and run the engine.
A cracked gasket or cylinder head will produce bubbles popping up from the coolant reservoir (remove the lid).
Once You come across the faulty cylinder and remove its plug connector the bubbling will seize, because there is no combustion.
No suplementary radiator in my F07.
"If the pressure is much higher in the cylinder (which I fully agree) then how the coolant can vanish? The CO2 goes into the coolant is ok but where the coolant goes? Or depending of the piston's direction in one way the CO2 goes into the coolant and the opposite way the coolant goes into the cylinder?"
...supposed there is a crack - be it the gasket or the cylinder head itself - it will be widened by the the combustion pressure an the elevated temperatures will evaporate the coolant making it gaseous itself.
But I think it is hard to tell which way it is going to escape.
Nevertheless, cracked gaskets or heads are known to result in coolant loss.