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Englishman needs help/advice

Themenstarteram 21. Juni 2017 um 21:33

Hi everyone!

First of all, I would like to apologize as I do not speak German:)

I'm buying a car (Volvo V40) from Germany - the contract is a standard German car seller's contract, but I have a question regarding the bill (Rechnung).

The seller told me that the car has never been damaged (except for some scratches as is normal for a used car), but then it says on the Rechnung 'Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt!' - what does it mean?

I have attached the original file (some data has been redacted).

Thank you very much for your help!

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19 Antworten

that phrase

"Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt"

means that - in case you sign that contract - you accept the car having been damaged

furthermore

"Verkauf erfolgt an gewerbetreibenden Wiederverkäufer ..."

means YOU are a professional car dealer, so there is no warranty

that shows the seller does NOT trust in that car running for at least 6 months without any serious problems ...

(I consider that ok if you buy a 10++ year old/200.000+ km car for 500 oder 1.000 Euro - but not in this case = selling s.o. a car for > 15.000 Euro!)

so why do you want to buy such a piece of overpriced trash???

Themenstarteram 21. Juni 2017 um 22:29

Thanks for your answer ...

So basically it says that the car was damaged and repainted?

Hi,

In my opinion, the bill / contract looks very strange.

There are many points that would make me suspicious.

In the upper part of the bill the seller writes that the car is being selled to a tradesmen and thus without warranty.

In the lower part of the bill the seller writes that the car is being selled to a private citizen and thus the added value tax can not be refunded.

The sentence you mentioned "Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt" says that you were informed about previously damages and paintworks.

Additionally there are misspellings. Misspellings in a bill? Really?

As already said: very suspicious to me.

Greetings

Christoph

Themenstarteram 21. Juni 2017 um 22:46

Zitat:

@rchr schrieb am 21. Juni 2017 um 22:36:29 Uhr:

 

The sentence you mentioned "Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt" says that you were informed about previously damages and paintworks.

Thank you very much!

Just to be clear: so 'Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt' doesn't mean the car was necessarily damaged, it means I was informed if any damages/repainting occurred?

Again, thanks to both of you, I won't buy it.

I would be suspicious, too.

I don't know if phrasing of the bill has any legal value. I think it matters what is written on your contract.

Seems sketchy to me, as if he wants to rip you off because you are not familiar with the language and soon out of the country. The formulation of the bill indicates that and is contrary to his verbal statements (that don't hold any legal value).

What does the contract itself look like?

A basic contract involving a private seller/buyer should look like this:

https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Kaufvertrag_engl_11.2016_V1_33250.pdf

Zitat:

@englishman_1 schrieb am 21. Juni 2017 um 22:46:57 Uhr:

 

Just to be clear: so 'Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt' doesn't mean the car was necessarily damaged, it means I was informed if any damages/repainting occurred?

Again, thanks to both of you, I won't buy it.

Hm...in court it will be as always...

For you, for me, for any other buyer it means that they have informed you about it.

For the seller it means, that HE knew about it...

I would just say hands off!

Thera are more than enough reliable sellers that will not cheat you!

Greetings

Christoph

Themenstarteram 21. Juni 2017 um 23:05

Zitat:

 

What does the contract itself look like?

A basic contract involving a private seller/buyer should look like this:

https://www.adac.de/_mmm/pdf/Kaufvertrag_engl_11.2016_V1_33250.pdf

It looks like this:

 

Yes, damaged and repainted. Ask for more details / documentation in this case. You have the option of a used car check (Gebrauchtwagen-Check) at f.e. Dekra for around 100€, provided the seller agrees.

Themenstarteram 22. Juni 2017 um 7:35

Thanks!

The thing is - the vehicle is not suspiciously cheap and it was serviced at the official Volvo service (I have the service book).

I understand your hesitation about the warranty, but even if I do get the warranty - I live in England so it's going to be bloody expensive to take the car back for a reclaim.

The really suspicious part was this 'Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt! Fahrzeug ist TOPgepflegt!' - as you explained to me, it basically means, the vehicle was damaged, I was told about it, but now it's in top 'form'.

"Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt" means that you don´t have the right to withdraw from the contract because of any damages or repair-paintings at the car - you also don´t have the right to reduce the price because of a damage or re-paintings.

I think : hands off!

am 22. Juni 2017 um 13:54

there is no volvo v40 existing in uk ?

Zitat:

@ricco68 schrieb am 22. Juni 2017 um 07:45:16 Uhr:

"Vorschaden und Nachlackierungen bekannt" means that you don´t have the right to withdraw from the contract because of any damages or repair-paintings at the car - you also don´t have the right to reduce the price because of a damage or re-paintings.

I think : hands off!

from my point of view, backing off from the sales Agreement just because the buyer has been made ware of previous damages and subsequent resprays would be a bit over the top. The question to englishman is: are you positive that the car in question is not a Lemon with poorly repaired structural damages? Any signs of poor resprays (like paint on rubber seals), any visually damaged panels underneath (boot floor, front mask, beams)? If none of this is apparent, I'd still consider to buy the car, if it has a competitive price that matches these previous damages and the factual exclusion of legal warranty.

Just my 2 pence

SpyderRyder

am 22. Juni 2017 um 18:02

This discussion is useless.

Things written on a bill don't have any meaning!

All the clauses used there would only be effective if written in the contract!

And what you call "contract" are are the general terms and conditions, it's not the contract!

am 22. Juni 2017 um 18:05

This seller is definitely not reputable - hands off!!

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